@Anders Cornelius Madsen - I do not deny that Scandinavia has some of the best democracies in the world. People there are also among the happiest. Still, my view of the future turned me into a small, cynical beast.

Take Norway. It may have the best welfare system on Earth. Sounds great. But it is funded by oil pumped from the sea. Oil that feeds climate change. And let’s not even start with the seal pups that were killed for years. Like many places, Norway also has a twisted elite. Some were even linked to Jeffrey Epstein.

Then there is Sweden. The country hurt its own image in the case of Julian Assange. Its military sometimes feels like it runs its own side quest. Submarines appear near the coast. Fear spreads. The public watches like extras in a tense thriller.

Denmark treats refugees harshly. Food there is also very expensive. And Denmark could have treated the people of Greenland much better, much earlier.

Can I count Iceland as Scandinavia for a moment? During the banking crisis, Iceland behaved badly too. It never fully dared a true reset. Even though it saw, more clearly than most, how ugly capitalism can get when criminal bankers run the show.

Sometimes the “happiest region on Earth” feels less like a utopia. More like a shiny Black Mirror episode — bright surface, dark plot, and a warning hiding in plain sight.

You can find issues with every government on earth at some point in time, and I am not denying that we have had our fair share of failures for sure, and some are still ongoing.

However, you were talking about fundamental structures, not individual governments, and I think that is an important distinction.

We have had governments trying to rectify failures of the past, trying to make amends for the things that have been done to others, things that should never have happened. All of that has nothing to do with capitalism or communism.

What I am trying to say is that our societies are trying to make sure that everyone has a bed with a roof over it, tha nobody goes to bed hungry and nobody dies from easily treatable diseases.

I am not saying that we are in any way perfect, but we sure as hell do not let banks throw people on the streets and leave them there to freeze to death, or let hospitals deny treatment to people who cannot pay or allow companies to work people into the ground for profits without throwing the book at them.

In my view, capitalism is money before people. Communism is power before people. Neither is acceptable in 2026.

@Anders Cornelius Madsen @Script Kiddie

Are the both of you implying that democracy and (any form) of Martkwirtschaft are mutually inclusive, or mutually exclusive, and or that none of them have the capability to create a permanent culture?

@requeteche
I have no idea what you are asking, to be honest. 🙂

As for what I wrote, I'm not implying anything - I'm simply saying that neither pure capitalism nor pure communism works, and to be frank, it has been more than proven already.

The problem is that neither takes the human nature into account. Human nature is to be instinctively trying to make your offspring better off than the neighbors.

If you live in a society where everyone earns the same, regardless of what you do (the theoretical communistic society), the only way to do that is to use your position (political power, if you like) to make that happen.

If you live in a society where buying your way through things, making money becomes the only factor that matters, even at the expense of others and their well-being, whether it be legal or not.

In either case, corruption will follow with a certainty very close to 100%. You can't abuse power or make money at the expense of others, without someone having to turn a blind eye at some point.

I'd say that both the USSR and the USA have proven both sides of that coin in spades.

If what you are asking is whether you cannot have a market economy in a democracy, or only can have it in a democracy, I have no idea - I'm a simple photographer, and that question is waaay above my paygrade. 🙂

@Anders Cornelius Madsen

Anders wrote:

both sides of that coin in spades

Anders wrote:

I'd say that both the USSR and the USA

Are we actually really talking about US vs USSR

Aren't these concepts, tales and issues kinda as old has the written story of human kind?

@Script Kiddie

@requeteche
Both sides of the coin - the United States of America is probably the ultimate example of how ruthless a society can get, if money is the only thing worth pursuing, while the former USSR was the insanely corrupt poster child for the original communist society.

In both cases most people was thrown under the bus by either billionaires with a bunch of politicians in tow, or power hungry politicians who would throw dissidents and political opponents in the deepest jail cell available or simply "disappear" them for good.

Were there good people in both societies? - yes. Were they able to hold on to power long enough to prevent a deep corruption of their society? - clearly not.

You're right that this is not something new per se, but the way modern communication works makes it so much easier for the ideals, the concepts to get in front of a much, much larger audience than ever before - and with much more impact, not least because of the sophisticated way the communication can be done.

It's getting harder and harder to spot AI generated content that is designed to manipulate and persuade in ways the world has never seen before. Yes, we had manipulated photos, audio, and later video, but the tools for creating manipulative content has never been this widely available to ruthless people.

@Anders Cornelius Madsen

Looking at the beginning of this take by @Script Kiddie with a way to broad brush stokes in an actual zeitGeist of idiocratic discourse of generalized BS talking points like capitalism and seeing the direction your observations are taking I can't see any real forthcoming outcome right here an now.

I do agree with the main observation painted by the initial post and entered in any case into your comments because I do agree that the European perspective is in any case an example from within europe but at the same time mainly for Europe, as things are acceptable and go well as long as the main status quo is not questioned or put at risk.
That's simply the main goal of systems, societies as well as democracy, to begin with.

To paint and start the proposed discussion by the Kiddie as she did, is honoring what she represents, from the beginning of her cheeks till the end of her eyebrows, nothing more and nothing less.

In this culture of reactive discourse, you drop a stone into the middle of the lake and the very same chain reaction of rings, reflecting the kind of water body the stone is sinking into, happens over and over again ..
Start with capitalism, and you'll en up with the words communism, socialism on a sandbox playground of the past and there for terms like USSR, USA and of course China.

Ultimately it's catering to the same stuff that leads to nowhere and leaves everything as check mate as it is.

To begin with, that's fine, let the children play.
Maybe, more like hopefully, they'll get something out of it and learn for the future, that's how it's supposed to be.

What we shouldn't, allow us to do, is to say:
"I have no idea - I'm a simple XYZ, and that question is waaay above my paygrade."
.. because:
a) That's simply not true. Your comments already have shown that you belong to the class that is part of the soil that creates the vision and is able to depict the viable options, even more having in mind the cultural background you mentioned already.
b) It's up to us, it's our turn, if we want to accept it or not.
c) None of us will be the hero, the one that finds the solution, for the simple reason that it doesn't exist.
There is no silver bullet.

.. and last but not least, nobody will or can save the world, and those who'll try to do will fail. For us, in most cases and best case scenarios that means a lot of pop, worst case scenario the savior will take us all with him, like Adolf Nazi and efing Goebbels did.

What for sure is a total waste is if people like us spend what we have, our daily life time, with discussions that don't belong into our means of action and to our world.

As an example, we already found our harbor over here in our streams. Are we really going to waste that space with their BS day in day out?

.. doesn't sound to reasonable to me ..

@remindme@mstd.social DM 1 week of the coliflor for the photographer.

@utopiarte None of that is a compelling rebuttal for anyone who knows anything at all about human history pre-Capitalism and its disastrous alternatives that ultimately get abandoned, usually after people get tired of digging mass graves.

Sorry. 🤷‍♂️

@Tag Your Toe

define "capitalism"