Here's the thing about Proton Mail:
With Proton Mail, the content of your email is fully end-to-end encrypted and inaccessible to service providers IF (and only if) you are communicating with another Proton Mail account, or you have set up a PGP key exchange otherwise.
The metadata of your email, however, isn't end-to-end encrypted. It is accessible in plain text to Proton. This includes:
- Your payment information
- The subject line of your emails
- Your IP address(es), which can reveal your location
- The email addresses you have communicated with
- The time you have sent and received emails
If Proton is legally forced to provide this information to law enforcement, they will. They have to.
If your threat model makes it that it's dangerous for you when this metadata is shared, you need to use another, more private, method of communication.
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Philip
in reply to Em :official_verified: • • •Em :official_verified:
Unknown parent • • •@frank There are already many other more private ways to communicate than emails, but alas they are much less user-friendly, interoperable, and popular.
But it's important to pick the right technology for each task and protection we might need.
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
Unknown parent • • •@delaney @frank
this is it
have a proton email account, by all means
use it for "Dear Illustrious Business Associate, I am writing to inform you..." type bullshit
and then strictly wall off genuinely private and sensitive information into other communication channels
it's a form of discipline everyone needs to practice
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 reshared this.
Delaney 🇨🇦 ✊🇺🇦
Unknown parent • • •@frank *cough* Signal *cough*
email has its place, but not for private communications.
funnymonkey
in reply to Em :official_verified: • • •Yeah - there never really has been secure email.
Threat modeling still matters, apparently.
Knut 🏳️🌈 🇳🇴🧸
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •Ianto Jones
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to Em :official_verified: • • •just a reminder that #proton is run by a republican boot licking tech bro
so regardless of the nonevent of this news cycle kerfuffle predicated on people not understanding their level of exposure, it's ok to give proton the middle finger just based on who runs it
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 reshared this.
mike805
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •@benroyce Has anyone recently said: if email did not exist and we wanted to invent it, what would we build?
Telnet and ftp are basically extinct. SMTP goes back to that era. If you were inventing email today and wanted to avoid all the current problems, what would you build?
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to mike805 • • •i have no fucking clue but i do know a million minds have examined the problem
one particular solution is mentioned in this thread:
https://mastodon.social/@snork303@toot.community/116185621889618413
John K
2026-03-07 02:51:35
mike805
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •@benroyce All of them looking down the narrow tunnel of "how do we fix SMTP?"
We need a new email system that is "better enough" so that people will use them in parallel. And eventually people will put an autoresponder on their old email that says "use the new email."
WhatsApp, evil though that is, replaced SMS in exactly that way: it became rude to send SMS because you were imposing an avoidable cost on the other party. And you were likely to get ignored if you did that.
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to mike805 • • •@mike805
eh
the telephone is dead
email is dying as well in terms of "primary importance"
there's no need to make a conscious effort
it will just fade away
mike805
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •@benroyce The telephone is not remotely dead. Being able to talk to another human is still a very useful function given that most people have speaking and hearing apparatus built in. (Having text comms universally available is very liberating for those who are not so equipped.)
The proof of this is that every motor vehicle includes a Bluetooth phone interface.
Email is an official rather than real time communication medium, but still necessary for sending files and notices.
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to mike805 • • •@mike805
i mean we still watch tv and listen to the radio too
no communication channel ever truly dies
but it certainly fades into ever increasing irrelevancy
so it is with email
mike805
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to mike805 • • •cool. make it happen
mike805
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •Confidant Mail
www.confidantmail.orgBen Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to mike805 • • •relaunch. the demand is more now
mike805
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to mike805 • • •@mike805
i don't know
but yes UI has to be good
mike805
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •mike805
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •WorldTravelerAll7
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •@benroyce
the irony that i opened a proton email to get away from gmail as part of my #BreakTheOligarchy effort
but now i have to find a new email because of my #magafree #antifascist effort😞
Em :official_verified:
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 reshared this.
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to Em :official_verified: • • •Teun 🌏 ❤️ 🏳️🌈 🇺🇦 🇵🇸
in reply to Em :official_verified: • • •@benroyce
Agreed. But there's no need to promote Proton. They're running on a campaign of »epic military-grade privacy« while that doesn't make sense for email in the first place. Email is a protocol, not a service, and the protocol is not private.
If you really want to use E2EE over email, you can do that already with any provider (but let's be honest, nobody does).
So let's promote actually good providers instead:
https://mailbox.org/en/ @mailbox_org
https://posteo.de/en
https://www.fastmail.com/ @fastmail
mailbox Suite for individuals and businesses
mailboxWouter 🇳🇱🇧🇷🇧🇪
in reply to Teun 🌏 ❤️ 🏳️🌈 🇺🇦 🇵🇸 • • •@teun @benroyce @mailbox_org @fastmail It's also worth reading this analysis about Andy allegedly bootlicking Trump...not everything is always true.
https://medium.com/@ovenplayer/does-proton-really-support-trump-a-deeper-analysis-and-surprising-findings-aed4fee4305e
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to Wouter 🇳🇱🇧🇷🇧🇪 • • •@AccordingtoWouter @teun @mailbox_org @fastmail
This is just PR damage control. He said what he said. I don't understand this "sure he pissed in the fruit punch for the party, but he's a really nice guy" mode of discourse. It's not about being overly judgmental and purity politics, it's about red flags about a business we are supposed to trust. If you go on a date and they're wonderful, then on the way out they kick a dog, it really doesn't matter anymore how great the date was
Wouter 🇳🇱🇧🇷🇧🇪
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to Wouter 🇳🇱🇧🇷🇧🇪 • • •😂 oh yeah, mustn't forget the integrity and competency of trump picks. no corruption or shady agendas, nope, mmm
you really believe that is accurate?
Wouter 🇳🇱🇧🇷🇧🇪
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •@benroyce @teun I don't know. It was one message on X where he didn't actually support Trump or anything, but someone who has a history of opposing big tech. He doesn't support anything else about Trump; on the contrary, he supports causes that oppose Trump. Proton's latest donation was to European Digital Rights (EDRi).
And I know personally how quickly statements can be taken out of context.
Sar
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •https://medium.com/@ovenplayer/does-proton-really-support-trump-a-deeper-analysis-and-surprising-findings-aed4fee4305e
:awesome:🐦🔥nemo™🐦⬛ 🇺🇦🍉
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •That's exactly how to use it 💡 ✅
James M.
Unknown parent • • •John K
in reply to James M. • • •@jamesmarshall
Been done a long time ago, look up the mixmaster remailer network and nyms.
Kick in the pants.
@Em0nM4stodon @frank
John K
in reply to John K • • •@jamesmarshall
I'll add a little more. I was there, testing and using it. Highly secure. Roger Dingledine was heavily involved, you can see what evolved from it.
I think a few operators still exist, but last time I tried there weren't enough of them to make a decent chain.
@Em0nM4stodon @frank
Em :official_verified:
Unknown parent • • •Jim Hubbell
in reply to Em :official_verified: • • •Cat 🐈🥗 (D.Burch) :paw::paw:
in reply to Em :official_verified: • • •Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to Em :official_verified: • • •and that's why noone should use #ProtonMail and their shitty #PGP setup!
- YouTube
www.youtube.comWesDym
in reply to Kevin Karhan :verified: • • •@kkarhan Proton does exactly what it says it does. It doesn't do everything that everyone wants or needs it to do, but it doesn't claim to.
At least half the complaints I ever hear about anything are from people using the wrong tool for the wrong thing, and getting upset when they find out the hard way.
There's a reason bank robbers don't hire Uber to drive them to bank jobs, and it's not because Uber fails to deliver what they promise, or rolls over for the Man out of spite.
Em :official_verified:
in reply to Cat 🐈🥗 (D.Burch) :paw::paw: • • •Ada :v_trans: :v_pan:
in reply to Em :official_verified: • • •genuine question: why do we still try to make email a fully secure method of communication after decades of failing at it?
It feels like legacy technology that works well enough to not be replaced, but lacks features needed in the modern world
7_Spatzen
in reply to Cat 🐈🥗 (D.Burch) :paw::paw: • • •@catsalad @frank @RnDanger
We know 😉