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My million dollar idea I want someone to steal and do, so I can be a customer.

"Dumb Stuff" we sell electronic appliances that aren't Internet connected. That's all.

That's it. That's the pitch. I would buy the <bleep> out of this company if their electronic gadgets were even half way decent, and repairable.

Electronic, no wifi, regular screws to open it up. That's it. Do those three things, and you can be sold by this store.

I will pay this business to curate and find these devices for me.

in reply to Pseudo Nym

Thing is, there will be an even bigger business selling devices to connect your unconnected devices back into the Net.
in reply to Lauren Weinstein

@lauren If someone wants to be an idiot, it's more work to stop them than benefit from stopping them.

Also, there's a beautiful electromechanical toaster design that was in production for decades just sitting there. There isn't anywhere to attach the electronics. There's an electromechanical boiled-dry kettle mechanism you can still get. There's a lot of options like that which aren't ever going to be cheap but that's the point; cost per year of effectiveness is lower that way.

in reply to Pseudo Nym

Iʼd buy from these folks. Would love a computer printer that prints. No scanning, no wifi, no Bluetooth. Just hooked up via a cable and does a great job printing.
in reply to Jack Yan (甄爵恩)

@jackyan

Exactly. I want my printer to put ink on thin slices of dread trees in a pattern I specify, I want my toaster to warm bread the right amount, and my TV to display video signals sent to it.

in reply to Pseudo Nym

I’m with you, brother, on all three. I still have a “dumb” TV and a “dumb” toaster and my printer is 17 years old with no scanner and no fax. Long may they all live—at least till this shop opens.
in reply to Jack Yan (甄爵恩)

@jackyan Can I open a "Stuff Made Dumb" kiosk in the back where you can bring in your otherwise perfectly functional 3-in-one printer-scanner-fax (that you don't use for faxing or printing), but would like to scan with, but is refusing to work because the printer cartridge that is still full of ink has expired?

I will sell you a pretty much dumb USB cable that will firewall the fuck out of the printer cartridge talking back to home base.

Yes, you can still scan.

Sorry, hp.com.au is unreachable.

According to the best available NTP server, the time is (based on your serial number) 240 days after you were manufactured.

The cable is a little bit smart: it's the same cable, it configures itself based on the device it is plugged into.

I guess I could sell them mail order, but the sense of relief that people would get is what would be worth it for me.

in reply to Jack Yan (甄爵恩)

@jackyan
> Long may they all live—at least till this shop opens.

Which may actually be a good reason not to open that shop : when this happens, we're back in the cycle of trashing perfectly functioning hardware because something better is available. :)

Maybe what we really need is a shop specializing in repairing what is supposed to not be repairable? or at least, replace the bare minimum that must be destroyed in the device to repair it. Build techniques and sell tools that allow to do that, and look the mid-20th century job of local electronic repair shop be born again and buying your stuff.

Even better version than that : repair and modding shops. Keep up with the new ideas by upgrading your old hardware. Sounds like a job for makers, and marketplaces of such mods could be opened.

It also solves the problem of "what is the economical value of selling stuff that doesn't need to be replaced?". As long as there is new hardware, we will need new repair machines.

in reply to kik

@kik @jackyan I'm in the middle of making a new metal part for a door handle because I don't want to buy a whole new door handle for $28. I've spent hours with a file and sandpaper. I'm enjoying myself in the process.

No normal person would pay someone for hours of their time.

in reply to Sam Oldman 🐀

@samloonie @jackyan Oh yeah, totally, it's a difficult problem to solve (which is why there may be a business there, you don't build a successful one by solving easy problems). What needs to be solved is allowing to do such repairs in less time. Not that we really tried in the last few decades anyway. It doesn't need to fix all problems of the world out of the door either, but may start with the most common one, do it well, and build up from there.

For electronics, we also very well may not have a choice. We currently live in a world where it's dirt cheap, but it's entirely dependent on stable and intense supply chains, no country have all the material needed to build a computer in their soil. Here is the problem : those supply chains depend on seafaring, which is easily affected both by climate change causing extreme weather and geopolitics. So, repairing electronics may soon become practical after all. And of course, electronics are not the only products affected, here.

in reply to kik

@kik @jackyan - @samloonie is right. It is impossible to reproduce things like rubber door gaskets for dishwashers. They have to be perfect, or they leak. Electronics are even worse, since you need to reverse-engineer, then build something new to emulate it, then test&revise dozens of times. Once it gets into the field, revise again because it doesn't work on 208v or after 6 months. Repeat effort for every model. Chinese mfg already do this for parts that fail frequently, mass produce
in reply to Trouble

@kik @jackyan @samloonie Liability is a huge issue. If you get that HVAC control wrong, a seemingly simple one input, one output on/off controller, you can burn down a house, or destroy a heat pump compressor ($5-10k to replace). I tried replacing one, and it worked terribly (PID control is PhD hard, and I was replacing a bimetallic mechanical control!). Plus software bugs.
in reply to Trouble

rubber door gaskets for appliances are available online . I’ve replaced on a dishwasher and washing machine.
PartSelect is amazing.
This entry was edited (1 year ago)
Unknown parent

Mark Mason
@Ea7krc @Npars01 #Dualit make kettles with replaceable elements. They are very expensive. I think that is what is missing from this equation. Reparable dumb tech is expensive, it was always expensive. That stuff that lives on from decades ago cost your parents 10 times what a similar products cost today.
Unknown parent

Mark Mason
@Ea7krc @Npars01 one of the reasons it’s cheaper is because making it to come apart is more complicated. Bolts instead of rivets, panels instead of moulded in one. Another reason is that big biz subsidise ‘smart appliances’ for the data they harvest.
in reply to Pseudo Nym

Our parents had household appliances that lasted decades and were repairable and maintainable.

Just hauled a 3 year old Samsung smart fridge to the dump.

They stopped making the parts to fix it after 10 months.

The dump didn't want it because it contains little that is recyclable.

Imagine this.

A fridge that can't cope with moisture, variations in temperature, vibration from doors opening & closing, the plastic cracks with the slightest thumping, and costs a fortune to buy

This entry was edited (1 year ago)
Unknown parent

Bernard Sheppard

@jsstaedtler @jackyan "Honest John's HDMI Cables":

"Why, yes, since you ask, you are connected to an HDCP compliant device".

"Yes, of course the copy protection bit is on".

"Yes, this cable does offer Ethernet over HDMI (editor's note: author couldn't be arsed looking up the correct terminology). I am sorry, it appears that when I try to resolve sony.com, I receive an NX_DOMAIN response from the authoritative server".

in reply to Pseudo Nym

If you're serious, I would begin my search for appliances in Latin America, where people don't buy products with nonsense features or that are not easily repairable. You'll find stoves that are just stoves. Refrigerators that are just refrigerators. It's like the 1960s but all new using the latest high-tech, high-efficiency, low power consumption compressors, etc.

There are many brands to choose from in Central and South America. Find out where they are sourced and import them.

in reply to Phil Landmeier

Seems to be a fair amount of interest in this. A few seconds with a search engine would turn all this up. But if I needed to outfit a house in Guatemala again (I lived there for 15 years) I already know what I'm looking for.

Small appliance stores are common. The "big dog" is called La Curacao. They have big stores in big cities and malls down to tiny stores in tiny towns. All my experiences with them, first and second-hand, have been excellent. La Curacao is the go-to place in Guatemala if you need appliances of any kind (electrodomesticos). Best Buy is probably the closest equivalent in the U.S., except there are no tiny Best Buy stores in tiny towns.

I think we were mainly talking about refrigerators and that plain refrigerators are gone. They are not. Guatemalans, especially Guatemalan women are astute buyers. "What is this silly feature and why am I paying for it? Show me another one."

A quick look at La Curacao's web site shows plenty of ordinary refrigerators and stoves.

Here's a brand I've owned before, Cetron.

https://www.lacuracaonline.com/guatemala/refrigeradora-cetron-rcc390ovne-frost-14-ft3-439613700005/p

14 cu ft. Q4,300 or $559 USD

Type "refrigeradoras" into the search box or here's a link that should list a number of refrigerators.

https://www.lacuracaonline.com/guatemala/catalogsearch/result/?q=refrigeradoras

To convert from Q to dollars, multiply by 0.13

The following link should bring up a number of free-standing and countertop stoves.

https://www.lacuracaonline.com/guatemala/catalogsearch/result/?q=estufas

If not, type "estufas" into the search box.

You can get even better deals from small "mom and pop" appliance stores but you won't get the backup you get with La Curacao in terms of guarantees and repairs, even if you move to a different part of the country. La Curacao is everywhere so I think it's smart to buy from them.

in reply to Pseudo Nym

@shuttersparks sounds like an easy "small import" business to start near the border. Wait for an order, drive over and bring back one at a time. Providing English instructions and new stickers sounds not hard, with managed expectations. Parts supply might be difficult though. Maybe partner with an existing repair shop with that specialty. Markup to same as the $1000 fridge, sounds right for one's labor.
in reply to draNgNon

@draNgNon I assume Mexico also has simpler appliances available if you know where to look. Or ask an existing import/expert business how much importing a few would cost.
in reply to Trouble

It seems do-able to me but I wonder where's the catch I must be missing? What are the hurdles? I'm sure that manufacturers have set up hurdles to make what we're talking about impossible so they can protect their closed market of people who expect to pay prices that are 250-plus percent higher.

The same thing exists with pharmaceuticals and prices that are 5 to 25 times higher than the same drug in Guatemala. But the game is rigged so you can't get around it.

in reply to Phil Landmeier

@shuttersparks vague unresearched thoughts because phone: import fees. UL testing. Freon ban. Lost, damaged cargo. Business insurance. Insufficient $ flow to keep a tiny 5 person business running (employees: Delivery, disposal, driving across the border). Dealing with cross-border incidents like a crash destroying your delivery truck and/or cargo. These are all similar with the so-called gig economy: individuals make money by skimping on $ABOVE and get lucky that nothing bad happens.
in reply to Trouble

Yup. Although I would stop thinking about the border. I'm sure all those appliances are manufacturered in Asia, so they would arrive in perfect condition by the containerful in Los Angeles, bearing whatever names and logos you asked for.

I'm also not clear on how many USians want simple, functional stuff. We in this thread obviously do. That's why we're talking about it. And we don't care what other people think. But even here in poor West Virginia, people are very focused on having the latest snazzy stuff that's "better" than what your neighbor bought six months ago. (This is a sickness unique to the United States, I think.)

So there may not be much of a market for pure practicality, even if it's a lot cheaper and more reliable.

in reply to Phil Landmeier

@shuttersparks I'm seriously considering buying an older Mazda Miata because parts are available en masse because it's a popular racing chassis. I don't want an infotainment system that renders my car undrivable on a failed firmware update.
in reply to Phil Landmeier

@shuttersparks small market is why I suggested starting with zero overhead and just drive down and back after an order has been placed. Rental truck means zero capital overhead to start with. Once you know you can reliably move 20 units a month, carrying stock makes sense (read: office/warehouse space). At 50/mo start ordering from Alibaba. There's definitely a learning curve (e.g. import, shipping) that I know very little about. Which is why it's not for me.
in reply to Trouble

Biggest problem with these modern players is they all use the same kind of cheap trashy cassette mechanism because there's only one company that still makes them. The companies that make these sort of "higher end" players try to modify it as best they can to improve playback quality but there's only so much they can do. It'll never be as good as even a mid-range quality player from back in the day that's been properly serviced.
in reply to Pseudo Nym

See also "A minimal motoring manifesto" https://hackaday.com/2022/05/05/a-minimal-motoring-manifesto/
in reply to Pseudo Nym

Anyone interested in this topic might also be interested in https://therestartproject.org/
in reply to Pseudo Nym

would love this! Can merge with my long-time wish for a No-Frills brand/aggregator of electronics without unnecessary touch screens, touch buttons, RGB everywhere, etc. It requires some effort these days to buy decent computer parts that don’t light up the room for example!
This entry was edited (1 year ago)
in reply to Holir_

Isn't buying a knife and getting a screwdriver, nail file and corkscrew the opposite of the simplicity requested here?

@clacke

in reply to clacke@libranet.de is my main

The Victronox brand has more than the Swiss army knife. Low frills, good quality and reasonably priced. The 8" chef knife is $60 and one of the best under $100. I've heard good things about their luggage as well.
in reply to Pseudo Nym

So that's what a Mastodon viral post feels like.

You folks are crazy and I love you.

Guess I hit a nerve with this.

Some great resources down thread, with suggestions of a few places to buy some devices like this.

Thanks all

in reply to Pseudo Nym

Whoa. Second wave.

Looks like @briankrebs found and boosted me.

Thanks, good sir.

Have always enjoyed your writing and #infosec insights

Hi to the new followers.

in reply to Pseudo Nym

Your handle makes me LOL. One of my first jobs at WaPo was reading all the incoming letters to the editor, 5 days a week, separating them into crazy vs. possibly have a point, and then contact the readers whose letters we want to run. Well, one Saturday, a letter ran that I never got a call back on, and Ms. Greenfield gave me a stern talking to. The reader's name was Tsu Doh Nimh.